The Hydrogen Hoax – Robert Zubrin
things i got from this article.
- hydrogen is obscenely expensive to make
- hydrogen is obscenely expensive to store
- producing hydrogen actually wastes energy; we could get more energy by using the fuels used to produce the hydrogen
- hydrogen presents us with very expensive and inherently flawed ways to store it
- cryogenic freezing to liquefy it requires refrigeration to 20 degrees Kelvin
- pressurized gas storage requiers 5000psi steel tanks that weigh many times more than the hydrogen they store and would be obscenely expensive to transport
- hydrogen is an inherent escape artist and will actually permeate, and in the case of steel, embrittle it causing distribution infrastructure to be obscenely expensive to build and maintain; and skipping distribution and creating it at the pump is even more expensive
and i haven’t even gotten around to the problems involved in using it as fuel in normal automobiles… it’s a great read and presents the inherent problem with using hydrogen as a way to wean us off our “oil addiction.” the endeavor can only be described as economically retarded. there simply is no other way to describe it.
Jared:
The immediate and most cost effective solution to ween us off foreign energy (oil) is nuclear (fission) power. It is decades old and we know how to do it. It produces NO GHG (greenhouse gases) and eliminates megatons of radioactive emmissions into the atmosphere. Yes… That’s right! Coal has a small amount of strontium and other radioactive nuclides. When it’s burned, most of that goes right up the stack. Then there’s the mercury!
This could change petroleum based politics in the near term for the better. Also, it would give us some time to get nuclear fusion online. This will make energy almost free compared to today, if done correctly.
Right now, plug-in hybrids are a good bet to really help. Charge ‘em up at night and you may not even burn gas to get to work and back.
Battery life is an issue though. So is an infrastructure to reprocess/recycle materials in them.
I have been reading and dreaming of fusion since I was about 8. It may be until 2030 to 2050 before it really works. But we need to invest much more in researching it.
Musta been a hot button or something, huh?
Joe
I completely agree. Currently we have a number of solutions that are proven to work and cost less than hydrogen. We’ve also seen huge advances in electric cars, see http://www.teslamotors.com (although it could be argued that we’re just regaining ground on the electric car, see Saturn/GM almost a decade ago).
the hot button is that our government is wasting so much money on a form of energy that is difficult and expensive to obtain in a form that is useful when we have many other options that are far more deserving of funding for further research.
Just got back to reading this thread…
Nothing wrong with hydrogen technology development. We just need a cheap way to make the hydrogen. Right now electrolysis is the best known way. There are ways to produce the electricity to do this right onsite at the electrolysis plants. Solar or wave action could produce enough to electrolyze seawater and produce hydrogen. Oxygen would be a beneficial byproduct too. For fuel cells, they could both be used. For internal combustion engines using hydrogen, the oxygen could find other uses.
We haven’t made a new nuke plant in this country since the ‘80 or so. This is criminal. France is way ahead of us. So are others. This would help with the electricity we need for regular consumption and chemical storage as hydrogen.
I have read about some research into using bacteria to produce hydrogen too. This may be the ultimate hydrogen production technology.
Eventually, some sort of plug-in hybrid system (whatever fuel) will be what autos develop into. Either synergy drive (where fuelled engine power is mechanically transmitted to the wheels when needed and electrical power is the mainstay) or pure fuel-electric power (like diesel locomotives with engines that just produce electrical power to run the motors). The military will probably do this soon with something like the HumVee. 4 wheel drive would be achieved with 4 motors, controlled by computers with an electrical source augmented by diesel (and later whatever) powered engines.
Just looked over at tesla motors. I have read about them in the past. Probably came across them on slashdot. 0-60 in 4 sec. 250 mi before a recharge. But, how long does that take? Looks like 4 hrs best case for a fully discharged battery. This could be a logistical problem. OK for a city car though. An overland vehicle should have multiple power sources (back to hybrid). That statement of 1 cent/mi is interesting though. I did a guestimation of gasoline cost per mi and it’s around 12 cents/mi.
Oh, for storage of H2, I have read about storing methane adsorbed/absorbed into nanotube matrices for high capacity storage. I’m thinking this might also be applicable to H2. Just a guess – I haven’t done any reading abou it yet.
Well… just a few more cents from me!
Joe